Banished Ventures

North 7.1 Beta

  • This topic has 97 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by Tom Sawyer.
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  • #5830
    Nilla
    Participant

    Now I recognize my seafarer map. ;) My guess is that it will be very difficult with logs/fuel and also fruit, since the trees don´t spread so good on bogland but we will see. Just one thing. I just opened a decent map but why don´t they bring any barley seed? They have barley in their bags so that´s not so logical and also bad because I play “harsh” so there´s not much use to try rye.

    #5831
    Jase
    Participant

    I’ve just played a few years on a seafarer map as well. As you can see on the picture I noticed that sometimes grass stands not on the bog square but next to it. And some bog squares have no grass at all. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the land is flattened by the peat cutting?
    The other new changes you made I like.
    To the grass, I have to say that I actually like it and it makes the land more natural. But there’s something missing that makes it look like a bogscape… You can see it well in winter but in the other seasons it is not so good to see, especially if you zoom out a bit. I don’t know, maybe bring in some variation with other bushes that have a different color than green or something? Or you rarely add some of those longer dry reed sticks like on picture 2 then there is a little bit of brown color in there?

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    #5834
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    That must have been very bad luck to not get barley.

    It will be interesting to see how you can manage wood and fuel up to mid game on Iceland maps. We can then adjust peat balance via output and required work per tile. At the moment it’s 8 peat from a tile with 3 x 10 work. For comparison, cutting a log into 4 firewood needs 2 x 10 work.

    The bog model can be improved for sure. I also want to try something that looks more like on your pictures.

    About these shifted models I was also wondering. Now I found a parameter I’ve never noticed, called positiontolerance. It creates a more natural look but I will adjust it to keep the grass in place.

    #5835
    taganaya
    Participant

    Are you sure that you aren’t running into the fuel limit, Nilla? They stop peat cutting if you’re at the limit. The one time I got really frustrated with my peat cutters for being slow was because of that.

    One weirdish thing I noticed: once a peat spot is built you can click the button to remove it and make the land buildable even if the peat hasn’t been mined yet.

    Perhaps this is intended? I don’t think it’s a problem because it’s not a shortcut – someone still has to come build the spot which seems to take the same amount of time as someone clearing it using the reclaim bogland tool. Just wanted to mention it though.

    #5836
    Jase
    Participant

    I will play a longer Iceland round tonight and tomorrow to see how it behaves with the wood and fuel. I’m sure Nilla is also playing^^

    #5837
    Nilla
    Participant

    I know Taganaya, I did run into the fuel limit and it might have had an influence on my feeling of taking long to take care of the peat but I also had the same impression after I raised the limit high.

    I´ve just started the new game and have no “fuel problem” (at least not yet) but I do have “fruit problem”. It will be hard to keep good health. Seafarer should be hard, but I like it to be possible to get enough fruit to keep 4-5 hearts.

    Since I´ve just thought about it, I might as well tell you about possibilities to improve the situation, just to discuss:
    – Is it possible to make that only berries grow by birches? Instead of mushrooms, there could be more berries. Since there are not so many birches on “normal” maps, this wouldn´t give much influence on the difficulty,
    – Alternative; give them apple seeds from the start. Why shouldn´t they bring some? It´s not very good to grow apples on “harsh” but mostly you will get some. Maybe it will be too easy if you play on “mild” but why shouldn´t it be?

    #5838
    Nilla
    Participant

    I played 18 years yesterday. The start is difficult, as I said in the last post; no problem with fuel but with food. I haven´t really realized, how important picking wild food has been in earlier games. Probably I also put too much effort into finding few berries too far away. But I managed and now I grow apples and I also see no other options than to farm, also on “harsh”, even if my goal is to trade for most of the food later.

    I have looked a bit more at the peat extraction. There´s still no fuel problems. I can even produce some pottery for export, something I couldn´t do this early in a seafarer game in the last version. At the moment, I wouldn´t cut peat just to get fuel, there would probably be enough deadwood close enough but there´s a lot of bogland that need to be cleared. It takes very long to clear land a bit further away from the houses if you want to use the peat. I guess it´s this “worse case” by idling; where the peat cutters spend more time walking back and forth than working. So I use a combination of peat cutting and reclaim bogland. We will see if this change if I sometimes manage to make most people happy. To clear pit close is quite efficient. So it´s hard to say something about balancing. It will be interesting to see later how peat cutting competes with cutting imported logs into firewood.

    Generally, I find the start has been more difficult than a start by the last version but it´s playable. The last game I found easier with all the trees.

    #5839
    Jase
    Participant

    Well, now I have also played a seafarer’s map as well.
    As you can see on the first picture I had a pretty hard start on an island with very few trees. But I tried it anyway.
    In the beginning I cleared some trees nearby which gave me 29 wood. I built 3 Goahti and a Pit House.
    I quickly sent three people to fish and one to cut peat. But unfortunately the first person died of starvation in september…
    I immediately started to grow 2 fields with turnips for the next year and it worked so far. It took some time until the sheep grew up and gave me some meat.
    I had left some trees in the hope that they would multiply but it did not work out so well… So I removed the bog around the trees so more trees and fruits could grow. From the rest of the wood I built a second pit house and had to make some stone tools. The food went well so far when the sheep were big.
    I had to remove some of the trees from time to time to build new tools.
    In the 6th year i came across my old wool problem again because the warehouse was full of wool again and took up space…so i had to build another turf storehouse next to it.(picture 2) Here i thought why not use other animals for the scenario like deer? Or an early storehouse for wool or materials…don’t know.
    But I knew that I had to go to the other island on the right because it had some trees. So I decided to build a bridge. But… the construction costs were too high… i had no wood… And the Stepstones were too short. Here I wished for a simple bridge with less construction costs… Maybe the Boardwalk just as a bridge with 2 wood per length? So I decided to cut down all trees on my island to build the bridge. On picture 3 you can see that in year 7 i had exactly the 48 wood for the bridge, but the tools ran out…so wait until the bridge is built…The health is about 0…
    The peat cutting works quite well but I don’t know which fields are already cut because no symbol is shown so I keep forgetting to create new areas. And because I have too few workers, I only allocate peat cutters when necessary.
    In the year 9 it was time…I only had one peatcutter and the working morale was not very good. I missed to instruct a second peatcutter and so all of them were frozen… end of story.

    Resume
    Without the peat cutting you could not have survived at all. But I had to clear a lot of bog to build buildings. And then there is the problem with the fruits and herbs… Now after I have seen how much peat is extracted until year 9 and with the extreme shortage of wood I think that the amount of peat should maybe be increased slightly…
    Maybe it makes sense to reduce the amount of bog generated by trees about 20% but to increase the amount of peat by 20%? Then you can also increase the amount of work by 20% and either let 2×5 peat be given or 1×10…
    Then you don’t always have to change and remove the peat places as often.
    Or you can go even higher from the % so that you have less bog but work longer on it.

    I found another bug. If you dismantle the Thingstead while materials are already inserted, you dont get them back. Now that there’s a lot less rock, I usually can’t build another one…

    Attachments:
    #5844
    taganaya
    Participant

    I’ve been playing Shepherd maps, and stone is definitely more challenging than it was before. I don’t think this is necessarily a problem, because stone did seem overly plentiful before, but I have a suggestion. I’ve noticed that my labourers always prioritize log cutting, even when there are other things I have asked them to do beforehand, but they don’t do this with stone. Would it be possible to prioritize stone in the same way? I know I could highlight stony areas with the priority tool, or cancel removal and then just set the stone to be removed if I need it right away, but I really like how it happens automatically with logs.

    Also: the wooden chapel doesn’t show a happiness radius after it has been built, though it does show one before.

    #5845
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    That was indeed a challenging start, Jase. Thank you all for your reports! I also played around with peat and after your reports I think to change the following points.

    1) We definitely need more berries in seafarer as you both write. I let now spawn more berries under birches but also directly around bog areas including the treeless bogs. It’s even more realistic then.

    2) I think to increase the output of peat from a tile to either 10 or 12 and to increase work time so that it’s the same as woodcutting but less tool wasting. Let’s say 10 peat with 2 x 25 work. Used storage I want to reduce to 6, so it doesn’t pile up so quickly.

    3) Used storage for wool and wadmal I want to reduce by 50% to 2 and 1. That’s the same as linen, reasonable and should already help to solve this problem you mentioned.

    4) I’m still not fully happy with the balance between small storage buildings. Jase chooses the pit house because it offers more storage per wood but actually the turf-storehouse should be superior in this case. I slightly adjusted both to achieve this.

    I also worked on alternative models of grass, something more “horstig” as on your pics but it does not turn out nice. Now I made our existing grass a bit thicker and adjusted color and positions to go with it. I think it gives a good impression of a swampy ground with an unspecific type of marsh plant that stands for any rush, reed or cattail and works well in both summer and winter now.

    I also looked at the thingstead and as you say it does not give back boulders from a building site. If you remove a finished thingstead, you get 50% back. From unfinished only the 2 logs. Not clear why.

    The priority of types of jobs I can’t change. As far as I know, it’s just added to an internal todo-list ordered by time and you can move it on top with the priority button.

    The missing circles around chapels I have fixed for next update.

    #5846
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    Btw, to build a bridge over the main river with less wood, I recommend the Stone Bridge. Looks cool and is not cheaty because needs more stone instead.

    #5847
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    I found the reason for the thingstead’s building site not giving back boulders. It is a problem in general. Removing a building site spawns materials only on road tiles inside this object. This is strange because removing a finished building drops just everywhere inside its whole area. It also happens for example with the smoking shed where you get back only one material on this road tile in front. That’s not cool at all because I have to define enough road tiles in all buildings to make sure all materials can drop somewhere.

    #5848
    Jase
    Participant

    The changes sound very good to me. I built the pit house because it needs the smallest amount of wood. But as you say, the balancing of the first three storage buildings doesn’t feel right yet. I just thought that Turf Storehouse might need less wood and more stone and the Pit House is still quite cheap. Let’s see what you have changed.
    Yes I know this stone bridge, I always have it in my mod list. But for testing purposes I always deactivated mods that add buildings or something like that, so I can rate the game better. I also have the CC-Transport mod in it, which adds nice bridges.

    Ah sounds stressful…sorry for finding the bug^^

    #5849
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    Stressful would be ok but it’s impossible with most buildings. Materials drop with max 100 weight per tile (what a citizen can pick up). That means 6 logs per tile and no way to add so much road. It actually needs to be fixed in core game to drop materials in the whole area as it happens when removing a finished building.

    #5850
    Nilla
    Participant

    You are adventurous Jase, choosing such a map, maybe a little too extreme for testing the changes but probably fun to make a try.

    I don´t know if it´s a good idea to increase the amount of peat from each tile and increase the work time or not. For the early game I would say, it´s not. I don´t need as much fuel as I need to get rid of bogland but on the other hand, there´s always the “reclaim bogland” option. But later in the game when you really want the peat primary as fuel maybe it´s better. Hard to say without being further than in year 26.

    The decreased weight of wool and wadmal will be good and I agree that the relation between the pit and turf storehouses needs some adjustments. After I built the clay pit, I only build the pit stores. Not only does it save logs and need little work to build, it also has more storage space pro tile. Maybe the worktime could be higher for the small pit store, not so unrealistic if you work with clay that needs to be prepared, dried and applied in several layers to be good enough to store food.

    I´ll also show one picture. You can see that it has not been the “land of plenty” but things seem to slowly sort out.

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    #5852
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    My current calculation for small storage in picture. This way the turf-storehouse would be the very best choice if wood is rare and all others have their place if enough logs are available. The small log shed is the fastest storage (storage/time) because clay for the pit house needs to be dug out of the ground first with much more effort.

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    #5854
    Jase
    Participant

    Yes, it is ok so far, but I would not reduce the stones at the Turf storehouse I think. Now in the last Beta the Mats is 16 and the S/Mat 75. If you make 6 wood and 9 stones the S/Mat would be 80. I think that’s a good value too? It has the best S/Wood so i thing its ok and it is better than now. The building is mostly made of stone.
    I don’t know about the capacity of the storehouse yet… the gap to the Stabur is already pretty wide. But its ok I think.

    #5855
    Nilla
    Participant

    I played some more years and I´ve now reached a point where I really need the peat as fuel and I´m starting to regret all peat I only cleared away without using at the beginning.;) So, I´m starting to think that it might be a good idea to increase the amount of peat on each tile. Although it will be a frustration for a person like me; too stingy to “throw away” valuable peat but also impatient, wanting to expand fast. I have looked a bit more in the combination of firewood (so far only deadwood) and peat. It´s a bit strange but it looks like people like to have the same amount firewood and peat in their houses. And since you need firewood for charcoal and in several other production sites, you will sooner or later need to cut wood as well but of course, peat will help out in the houses.

    One small request if it´s not all too much work: is it possible to change the colour of the peat tile when all peat is harvested? It would be a little easier to manage these larger peat areas.

    I´m working on making my people happy. I started a bit the “opposite” way by building the pagan temple before all wells and saunas. As it is now, I will need all happiness maker anyway to get one single person happy; they live in the turf houses, the diet hasn´t been very good and everyone was ill. But one thing is weird: they are supposed to sacrifice sheep. OK, maybe the gods will like crayfish but peat? Why on earth would they sacrifice peat? Maybe it´s cold in Valhalla.

    I will also show you my gay couple! Never saw one before. ;)

    Attachments:
    #5858
    Jase
    Participant

    Wow Nilla you have a modern community there with your two gay vikings^^
    I also thought about the other color of the peat tiles, would be cool if that was possible. Or that somehow you see that peat was already mined there.

    #5859
    Nilla
    Participant

    I have small problems with the pagan chapel. Look at the happiness graph. Happiness drops when the temple runs out of mutton and it seems to happen the whole time. It looks like they don´t start to refill the chapel with mutton before it´s completely out and since I´ve built it a bit away from the village, it takes some time and in this time, happiness drops. (there´s plenty of mutton in my stores). And why do they need firewood? Do they cook the sacrifice meat? Maybe instead some offering gift could be produced and stored in the temple, similar to the roasted meat in the mead hall.

    At the picture they have just refilled the temple with mutton and happiness rises again.

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