Banished Ventures

Testing North7

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  • #5257
    Nilla
    Participant

    Just want to report that it wasn´t a bug at that claypit after all. It took a very long time but after a year or two, someone must have got that spare clay away and now the pit is gone. :) sorry for “troubling” about it.

    #5260
    Nilla
    Participant

    I played a little more yesterday evening, not more than about 5 years. Strange how things can change over such a short time. My log/fuel issues are gone! I can build what I want, there´s always enough firewood, I can run my energy consuming sites, I´ve even built a second tar/charcoal kiln. What has happened? I think it´s a combination of 3 things:
    I´ve started a coal mine, not more than 350-400 coal each year is added but it helps.
    The foresters that have worked for quite a few years finally cut a lot of logs. The first years they mostly cleared the ground from stones and ore.
    I´ve built a 4. woodcutter/chopper combo. This one has full 5 stars and works far more efficient that his colleges who live out in the woods, far away from all happiness maker. I estimate that he produces at least 30 % more than the other.

    I will now try to transfer this village to be supported by trade. It will be a long way to go. But it looks possible.

    I have just one more question for now; how does eduction influence the production? Are there any major changes? I guess it will now pay off to order some bricks and roof tiles and build a school. Especially when I want to expand my “industries”.

    Picture
    I can´t believe this. It´s March and we still have a lot of firewood!

    Now, not everything is going perfectly smooth. There´s a drop in health. There are too many houses for the small Wagon Vendor, even with 3 vendors working. I regret I didn´t leave space for a big market, but if I want one, I would have to move pastures and demolish some other things as well to get it on a good spot, so I will add another Wagon vendor and hope for the best instead. Here you really can see that you can have all kind of food and everyone can live close to a market but still have health issues if the distribution doesn´t work as you planned.

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    #5262
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    Yeah, forestry and coal mining are great against wood shortage.

    No major changes at education and definitely worth to teach your clueless bannies. =)

    #5263
    Nilla
    Participant

    This is the craziest bug I´ve ever had!
    Since I wanted to build a school, I ordered bricks and roof tiles. When I got them, I decided I might as well try to replace the Wagon Vendor, with a couple of Lanthandel.

    When I click on the small trading dock (or many of the other buildings); the menu of the Lanthandel pops up and I can´t open the menu of (almost) any other building. The glassmaker or the large trading port seem to ban the curse and everything works normally for a little while after I´ve clicked on one of these buildings. Then I click on the small port, a barn, a production building or a house and the Lanthandel menu is shown again, the “curse” is there until I click at the glassmaker. Weird!

    I will now demolish the cursed building and see what happens. If it´s only this one on that location or if the other one is weird as well.

    I demolished it, rebuilt it 1 tile away; the same. There are some weird lines when I click on it. I don´t know what they mean.

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    #5266
    Nilla
    Participant

    I´m afraid, the second Lanthandel shows the same weird things.

    #5267
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    I really renamed it to “Landhandel”? Did I drink some Swedish schnapps that evening or how could it happen. And wrong written in addition.. lol

    Good that you found this bug. I have fixed it right now for the final version. It’s a wrong scaled outline mesh (used for picking and highlighting) that stands huge over your map if activated and then blocks clicking other buildings. You can avoid this bug in your game using only the two other variants of the shop. The one with reddish sign on roof has the wrong mesh.

    #5268
    Vrayna
    Participant

    Reddish sign, that’s the one with tables of goods on each side of the door, isn’t it?
    *rushes to cancel the building and pick another model*

    #5269
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    The one with two tables has a greenish sign on roof and a nice working yellow outline. The buggy one has it’s outline somewhere in outer space.^^

    #5270
    Nilla
    Participant

    No, no Tom, you didn´t drink enough Swedish schnapps to hide your German accent. ;) But nothing can stop me from using the proper Swedish name.

    I´m glad you found the bug. It was too weird for my taste. Are you sure, that it´s only one of the stores (!) that´s bugged? I have demolished them but when I look at my screenshots, I have 2 different kinds of them; the one with the fruit left and the one with fruit on both sides. As far as I noticed; all of them were bugged.

    #5272
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    Loading the Beta from 8. November it’s the one with reddish sign and table to the left from your view. Both other variants work.

    #5273
    Nilla
    Participant

    Are you really sure? I have another screenshot here from the store, where I first discovered the bug. It´s the one with tables on both sides. Same as the second, that also bugged. On the winter picture in the earlier thread, I´ve rebuilt the first store, 1 tile away from the first. That´s the one with the table left.

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    #5275
    Vrayna
    Participant

    If you have both built, is it not because when clicking on the one with the 2 tables, you’re also selecting the buggy one because of its insane footprint?

    #5276
    Nilla
    Participant

    As you might have noticed, so far I´ve said almost nothing about “my speciality”; production numbers and balancing. That´s partly because I haven´t run many of the sites continuously long enough to get reliable numbers but also because I´m very pleased with the balancing, generally. As usual, Tom; you´ve made a great job.

    This game is on “harsh”. I´ve just built a school, so everyone is still uneducated. I´ve waited this long on purpose, just to get a feeling of how the game works with only uneducated workers. It´s probably wise to build a school much earlier. So, the conditions can´t be much worse. It´s possible to survive and expand the settlement but it is a struggle. I still need to micromanage. I can´t survive without the unreliable farming and without sending, maybe not everyone anymore, but a lot of people out in the woods to pick blueberries and deadwood. I would very much like to do without this but so far, I can´t. I find this is perfect balancing! If I could have played this game without struggle, it will be too easy when the population gets educated or if you play on “mild”.

    It´s a small profit to produce a surplus of goods to sell, but I can´t produce so much that I can support the settlement. The export sites make an annual profit between 600 and 1500 trade units each year. Reasonable for an uneducated worker. It´s more profitable to make wadmal than wool tunics. If I know your way of balancing, Tom, I´m sure this will change with educated workers. But it´s still a small annual profit to make the clothes and some merchants pay the higher price for them and not for wadmal, so I sell both.

    I might have some suggestions for the ports and merchants.

    The small ports work pretty much as they used to in North 6, even if the merchants bring a bit different stuff. I complained at the beginning that they didn´t bring any gold or silver, but they do. Maybe not so often as they used to but when they have some, it´s quite a lot. So I´m still mostly able to pay the Hanseatic merchant in gold. I also complained that they bring too little food. This changed as the settlement passed 100 inhabitants, so if I order beans, now I can never buy it all.

    I´ve mentioned it before; the only thing, I might want to see changed is the trade with fresh meat and fish. If we can´t limit this to the winter when it´s frozen, I would prefer, no trade with fresh meat and fish. This could also give smoking higher importance. No merchant wants fresh meat but some pay 2 if it´s smoked. It´s still a considerable loss in food amount to trade away smoked meat but you might still want to if you have a lot of meat and want a balanced diet.

    The same merchants seem to arrive to the big port as the small. It´s quite logical but it would have been a nice surprise to see at least one new merchant here, that doesn´t bother to stop at the small ports, maybe a special salt merchant. Salt was maybe the most important import good and I find too few merchants bring some.

    How do you find the idea, that no merchant bring seeds and animals to the big port? The many seeds are rather annoying. At the time as you can afford to build one, you must have bought all you need and besides, I see no reason to demolish the small ports, just because you can build a large port. My idea later in the game is to use the big port for barter trade and the small ports for import, using daler. But I´m far from there, yet and can´t say if it works.

    I liked the old export merchants better. It was clear what goods they wanted. Here their title says nothing, I need to stop the game and look, what this merchant want to pay good for. My suggestion is 4-5 different merchants for different types of goods with clear titles; Maybe

    foodstuff
    metal products
    textiles and clothes
    building materials, like glass, brick, pottery, tar
    and maybe one more for raw material and some special goods like herbs and alcohol

    #5277
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    That’s nice it turns out this way in your game! I think the harder conditions should be at this point where it’s doable but demanding even if you know what to do. I don’t want Ironman to be standard for experienced players. That should be something on top. And there are still many options to make it easier for relaxed playing.

    What I want to further develop is accessibility of things that moved to mid game because of their models not matching the new Viking style early game. Like the ancient herbalist from Vrayna or the workshop and maybe some others.

    About merchants I had this thought with additional trade routes for new items but people could run into problems if they don’t know and wait for a material that is brought only to the other type of dock. Would be frustrating. So I only changed the ratio of merchants. To the small dock more local merchants and from other routes only 1 guy while at the big dock are more boats from far away. That means foodstuff, livestock, seeds and basic materials more likely in early game and advanced materials more likely a bit later.

    The merchants arriving at the export dock are from these trade routes as well and demanding goods that fit in their profile. Sami traders buy food and tools because it’s needed there or English traders wanting wood, charcoal and tar for industrial use and shipbuilding etc.. They pay a good prize for many things while a specialized timber merchant would only pay well for wood. The intended use of this big export warehouse was to put in all stuff you want to sell and to hit auto trade knowing that they will pay well for most of it. Those merchants coming to buy fur or wood I still have in mind but for small specialized docks. At least that’s the idea behind this setup.

    #5278
    irrelevant
    Participant

    Just noticed something interesting about the trapper cabin. For several years I had only a single trapper working and was getting 8-20 furs/year. I finally got enough workers to assign a second trapper, and production jumped to 70 furs the first year I did this. What could possibly account for this disproportionate increase? Do trappers behave like gatherers, leave their production on the ground for laborers to collect? I can’t stop the micro for long enough to follow them around.

    Also noticed that fur production does not appear in any of the categories of the production tab of the Thingstead. Design or accident?

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    #5282
    irrelevant
    Participant

    Just had two nomads arrive at the Thingstead. I assigned them jobs and built a goahti for them. Then I discovered that they arrived on the far side of the unbridged river, and so they starved to death. In all towns I have played up to now, when nomads arrived, they actually did arrive in the town, and were standing at the town hall (or whatever building brings them). If they could not pathfind their way to the town hall, they never were announced as having arrived. Is this an accident? Can it be remedied?

    Anvils are awesome trade goods, nominal TV 100.

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    #5284
    Smurph
    Participant

    I’ve had similar experiences with Nomads.

    On my small map sometimes the Nomads spawn in a location that cannot reach the Thingstead but I still get the “Accept Nomad” prompt. In one corner of the map, it is impossible for me to connect to those nomads via bridge or tunnel. They always starve to death.

    In a second direction Nomads spawned, prompted the acceptance at the Thingstead, and could not reach my town. Fortunately, I was able to build a bridge and connect them to town before they starved to death.

    #5285
    Tom Sawyer
    Keymaster

    Morning.. Weekend and time to create something. :)

    At the Thingstead you found a bug and I fixed it for the final version. Nomads will spawn properly. Thank you for this find.

    I’m not so happy with the output of furs. It’s a decent profit but doesn’t feel so with around 20 to 50 furs per year. Since trappers need so much untouched forest area it can be more, also with the nice price of 40. Will look how to keep fur coats in balance with a higher output of trapping.

    Another small bug is in the trappers cabin showing the textile limit but Furs are now counted as material above textiles in your production overview. Together with hides. This way, weaving doesn’t stop when hunters pile hides and furs. Basically, trapping works like gathering, yes. But usually they pick it up by themselves.

    Test Log is updated.

    #5294
    Nilla
    Participant

    Well, I don´t dare to think about “Ironmen” on Iceland. But I like the idea, that you can try it if you want to really “suffer”.

    I don´t find that the traders at the big port bring fewer seeds and animals, in the contrary, it looks like more. As I said, quite annoying an unnecessary mid-late game.

    I don´t see how you can auto trade at the export port unless you can afford to sell some goods for the low price, what I don´t think you can under these conditions. But I plan to auto trade food for daler at the small port, once I got the export running well enough. That will make the trade much easier.

    I guess I can learn what the different merchants want to buy for daler but it used to be easier. The good thing is that there´s no merchant, that you can make no business with, like the old Timber merchant. They all want to buy something I like to export. By the way, there is one that has only a name and no title. I will pay attention and tell what he wants to buy and I also have the impression that different local merchants want different things. I´m not sure and will look at it more carefully…….

    ………if this settlement survives…….

    I don´t want to expand farming and my food stores are slowly shrinking. The log-fuel problems have reappeared, simply because I try to increase fuel demanding export goods production and I was careless/stupid enough not to expand the pastures as much as would have been wise.

    Picture
    Can I demolish the other chapels when this beauty is built? I somehow miss the crosses you can see everywhere on the real Norwegian starvkyrkor. Because in this village we are good Christians except at childbirth and distress at sea. (That´s a quote but I don´t remember from where, probably some literature)

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    #5299
    Nilla
    Participant

    The settlement still lives. It´s still a struggle. I have reluctantly built a few more fields and I´m about to expand the number of pastures. With a second forester, I also hope that we can increase the charcoal production and be able to increase the production of fuel-consuming export goods. Students have started to graduate. It´s too early to see an overall effect yet. I´m trying to locate the educated workers to “important” sites but they are still few and are not easy to force to be glassmaker instead of traders at the close trading port.

    My major issue at the moment are the markets. They don´t work as I want to (and as they use to at a vanilla game). First I used the Wagon Vendors. They worked very well at the beginning but as the settlement grew, it was getting harder to keep them filled, even with 2-3 vendors. This is something I´ve seen in other games, too. They are simply too small to support a lot of houses. Since the Lanthandel “bugged”, I built first one and now two big markets. But they can´t be filled. Look at the pictures; there isn´t much food at the market. I want to fill it with as much food as I have in the barns so I assigned 6 vendors. Normally it doesn´t take long and the market will be well filled. But these guys refuse to work. At the second picture, at least 2 of them do but at the first; none! I can´t understand what´s wrong. Any hints?

    Also; I have never seen any firewood at one of the markets. I don´t know if this is a bug or if it´s too heavy for my reluctant vendors to carry. And maybe some of the materials like barrows, potash, pottery, rope, tallow should be removed. Maybe space for such things is reserved at the markets and make it impossible to fill it with food and firewood. Textiles and salt may have a point to store there, to be able to locate tailors and salt consuming sites close to the market.

    The merchant Conniel has no title but wants to buy ironware, glass and pottery.

    Irrelevant; I have noticed, too that anvils have a good profit but I don´t sell any iron products at all. (I put some spare iron fittings in some of the ports just to see which merchants pay good for them but I haven´t sold any). The reason is that I always was short on logs and fuels. So I made a small calculation of which goods made a good profit/used log. And since iron products use charcoal at each step, thay cost more logs to produce than pottery and glass.

    If my calculations are right; you get a profit for one used log:
    iron tool 29
    iron fitting 35
    anvil 39
    pottery 97
    glass 77

    First picture
    Vendors prefer collecting resources than to fill their market.

    Second picture
    Now at least two of them are working but the market is quite empty, even if there are a lot of meat and fish in the barns. I held the menus open for quite some time and never saw more than two of them working at the same time, often it was only one or none.

    Third picture
    They don´t even empty the mead house anymore, what they did at the beginning of the game. Now, I don’t complain about this, it´s just a notice. If the vendors were too diligent at the beginning, now it has changed to the opposite.

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